TEEN SEX :

Teen Sex is a very controversial issue in our society today . Western Societies r used to it and try to deal with it on a public platform , addressing it as an unavoidable public issue while Eastern traditional cultures prefer to deal with it by not talking about it . They feel that talking about it or attempting to 'understand' it may prove detrimental to culture .

Whatever may be the approach , Teen Sex exists and has affected society more than one cares to admit . The discussion I want to initiate should primarily answer these questions for me ...............

1] Is it healthy ? Some say , sooner or later it starts anyways . Its the way youth 'express themselves' .

2] What should be the appropriate age for this 'expression of self ' ?

3] Was the compulsion of being a virgin till one got married a horrifying puritanical excess , a suffering ?

4] Many youngsters believe today that expecting virginity till marraige is sick and judgemental . Do u agree ?

5] Were our ancestors judgemental or were they making these rules to keep minimum chaos in society ?

6] Is it ok if teens indulge in sex if they use adequate protection ? Should the permission for sex be given if they promise to have 'safe sex' ?

7] Would we want this for our children when they grow up ? Is it a part of 'letting go " ?

8] Adults can have it if they r unmarried but teens can't is what some believe .Is it fair ?

9] Who decides WHEN premarital Sex should commence ?

10] If Teen Sex leads to pregnancies , should we help our kids our alienate them ? I ask this specifically as while doing irresponsible sex they defied us and didn't ask us . So do they desrve help or should they bear the brunt of their actions as thats how it is in LIFE ?

This is a sensitive throbbing issue . I await your frank answers , trusting your capacity to do a fair , respectful and intelligent debate .

So lets Begin .

Before I comment on this I must state that I grew up in an ultra-conservative household in the East and though I have lived in the West many old inhibitions remain.

Teen Sex has always been something I am cautious of.

Sex in my opinion should be something private and more important something done with some responsibility and awareness. While some teenage relationships may have the former I am always concerned about the latter. Not to say that irresponsible adults do not exist but I think that generally speaking adults (after finishing their years of education, getting hard knocks in a very competitive world and setting some sort of a foundation for themselves with their income) are better equipped to deal with the consequences of risks that are inadvertent in sexual relationships.

1] Is it healthy ? Some say , sooner or later it starts anyways . Its the way youth 'express themselves' -

I have to answer this in two parts:
Physical health -I would say no issues provided that sex has the same parameters for teens as it does for adults - safe sex. Some teens are very responsible in this manner.
Emotional/ mental health - here several factors could be involved - is it due to peer pressure? Is it a defense mechanism to deal with social insecurities? is it due to a deep passionate loev or just raging hormones? I think in most instances it is the emotional impact of teen sex that is the bigger issue for me. How does it affect their individual growth, their relationships, the duties to families and themselves, the completion of their education and it is in these instances that I question if sexual relationships between teenagers is appropriate. sexual relationships (if done out of sme kind of commitment or emotional attraction as opposed to trends) is quite restrictive on a child who is on the cusp of adulthood. I think it is unfair to the child because it might have consequences that impact them for life.

2] What should be the appropriate age for this 'expression of self ' ?
18-19 years maybe. I don't think it is an expression of self. That comes for personal growth and individual achievements not from relationships. relationships are for bonding with someone that you have a high degree of compatibility and even ultimately nesting. When you participate in a sexual relationship you are emotional and physical influenced by some traits or preferences of another. In my mind it is not expression of self but harmonization of two like personalities.

3] Was the compulsion of being a virgin till one got married a horrifying puritanical excess , a suffering ?
I don't think that in this day and age one needs to be a virgin till marriage. Having sex as an adult or in some cases even an older teen is not so bad if done by individuals who are mature, responsible and aware of self and partner. I think casual sex with multiple partners is not good emotional, physcially or mentally in 90% of cases.

4] Many youngsters believe today that expecting virginity till marraige is sick and judgemental . Do u agree ?
I don't think it sick or judgemental but I also don't think that people who plan on marrying in their late 20's etc should abstain until marriage. Live-in relationships require equal commitment without the legality.

5] Were our ancestors judgemental or were they making these rules to keep minimum chaos in society ?
I think the latter.

6] Is it ok if teens indulge in sex if they use adequate protection ? Should the permission for sex be given if they promise to have 'safe sex' ?
I don't think that teens would wait for their parents permission to have sex. most teenagers are pretty confident about what they want to do and once they have made up their mind they inform not request.

7] Would we want this for our children when they grow up ? Is it a part of 'letting go " ?
I would not want it for anyone's child who is 17 years old or less. It is not a question of letting go. Parents these days do let go by age 10 or 12. What does concern parents is that children take these decisions boldly and independently and when the proverbial s**t hits the fan suddenly the argument becomes oh we are still teenagers and so we need your support as we work through the consequences. In these days of nuclear families and working parents, it takes all one has to get that work-life balance and to see ones life successes in their children's progress and achievements. but consequences of teen sex (done without thought o consideration to ripple effects) can often take you steps backward as a parent and see life-long crippling impacts on your children. Its unfair all around for the risks involved.

9] Who decides WHEN premarital Sex should commence ?

It is a democracy right? these decisions are spontaneous anyways so I dont think that autocracy by parents will act as a deteriant or a caution but rather as a challenge or cause for rebellion.

10] If Teen Sex leads to pregnancies , should we help our kids our alienate them ? I ask this specifically as while doing irresponsible sex they defied us and didn't ask us . So do they desrve help or should they bear the brunt of their actions as thats how it is in LIFE ?

Depends on what knd of parents you are. Lenient or not - it is ubjective. generally speaking if they are old enough to make their own sexual decisions then they should also be old enough to manage the consequences. I think personally I would offer assistance if my child was 17 or under. but over that I would be more on the circumference rather than front and centre


[/quote]

koolsadhu1000 wrote:

Teen Sex is a very controversial issue in our society today . Western Societies r used to it and try to deal with it on a public platform , addressing it as an unavoidable public issue while Eastern traditional cultures prefer to deal with it by not talking about it . They feel that talking about it or attempting to 'understand' it may prove detrimental to culture .

Whatever may be the approach , Teen Sex exists and has affected society more than one cares to admit . The discussion I want to initiate should primarily answer these questions for me ...............

A very reasonable take on the sad state of affairs as they stand today. A fundamental change occurred in the East, especially in India with the advent of cable TV. What was normally discussed in hushed voices was now available for all to see - I refer to the the initial and very popular programs, (back in the early 90's) namely all the Soaps - All my Children, Bold and Beautiful, Santa Barbara, etc. Some of these shows, more than others, brought promiscuity, left, right and center of every conversation as I remember while traveling in the trains.
One must reason that promiscuity before marriage does not necessarily lead to monogamy after marriage.
What is the saying - once a thief, always a thief.
When one has had the fruit of so many gardens, why would one then settle for the same pasture (every day, day after day) for their rest of their lives.
Let us look at the divorce rate in Western nations and the alarming normality it has assumed in our homeland too.
Most of these are the result of trying soup from someone else kitchen only because, like any drug or forbidden item, it is a hard habit to break.

Quote :

1] Is it healthy ? Some say , sooner or later it starts anyways . Its the way youth 'express themselves' .

While sex had its part to play in any society, I would shudder to think of my 13 year old cousins / nieces getting "laid", begging all your pardons for my crude choice of words.
Expression is something that is public and this act is certainly done in closets, and closed rooms - so what exactly is being expressed, Sorry, no dice.

Quote :

2] What should be the appropriate age for this 'expression of self ' ?

There is a saying in the "red-neck" society, "Old enough to bleed, old enough to breed" (pardonez moi,s.v.p.)- and look where that section of society is currently.
If you are old enough to pay for your own shelter, food and clothing, then perhaps no one has any say in the matter, however, if any one of these criteria are not met, then no amount of maturity, in my books, "earns" access to the deed

Quote :

3] Was the compulsion of being a virgin till one got married a horrifying puritanical excess , a suffering ?

This should be a matter of choice once one is capable of sustaining one's self without parental support. Imposing mores has almost always had a way of back firing.
Look at how the Victorian Era of high collars and so-called morality evolved into the hedonism that prevails today.

Quote :

4] Many youngsters believe today that expecting virginity till marraige is sick and judgemental . Do u agree ?

As mentioned above, this should be a choice. Kids get married quite late in their life today as opposed to only a generation of a couple of generations ago.
A lot of them are self supporting, and therefore, should be able to live their own lives.
Of course, having a job, and saving all your money (or wasting it on parties), while living of Mom and Dad's dime, of course opens up other doors of rational.
The old adage "As long as you are under my roof" should totally apply. My castle, my rules, so if Dad is cool with it, then by all means.

Quote :

5] Were our ancestors judgemental or were they making these rules to keep minimum chaos in society ?

It is so easy to point the finger at the elders and lay all the blame on them. But they have a very legitimate excuse, which was given to them, in all our glorious knowledge and depth of experience, "Old fashioned". They dutifully, unlike most of us today, obeyed their parents - no questions asked.

Quote :

6] Is it ok if teens indulge in sex if they use adequate protection ? Should the permission for sex be given if they promise to have 'safe sex' ?

No such thing as safe sex for teens, they are simply not emotionally ready to handle all the baggage that goes along with it. A simplistic analogy would be the potential disaster in the making, if when a builder is mixing the cement for laying the foundation of a building, is distracted by his gambling habit. He plays cards instead of paying attention to his work. The foundation that he now lays for his building structure is a definite "maybe". Teenage years are the preparatory years - the foundation is still being mixed, the laying of the foundations starts in college and university where they may start testing the waters, after which, once the foundation has set - let the partying begin!! (after they have moved out of course)

Quote :

7] Would we want this for our children when they grow up ? Is it a part of 'letting go " ?

see #6

Quote :

Adults can have it if they r unmarried but teens can't is what some believe .Is it fair ?

Life has never been fair. Life is not about being fair. Life is about living it to the best of your ability.
Just because I have something or have access to some facility, cribbing about it does not justify you having it too.
I may have earned it, or inherited it, or even stolen it from someone else, I did what I had to do to get it.
As long as I do not use a crutch (my parents house, food, etc.), then it is no ones business but mine.

Quote :

9] Who decides WHEN premarital Sex should commence ?

The answer is rather simple. Sex is the basic means of procreation. Procreation should be done performed by those that can support the creation that was "proed".
In the good old hunter gather days, you could not get any until you could prove your mettle. That probably meant fighting some one for the right.
Today, while not so physically painful, it is just as difficult, economic might.

Quote :

10] If Teen Sex leads to pregnancies , should we help our kids our alienate them ? I ask this specifically as while doing irresponsible sex they defied us and didn't ask us . So do they desrve help or should they bear the brunt of their actions as thats how it is in LIFE ?

This, unfortunately for us, is where we fall apart on our own principals. For all my rumbling, I must admit that, when push comes to shove, I will succumb and probably run to the aid of my child.
Of course, they will never hear the end of it. No matter how many time you warn or guide, after the dam is broken, all parties should come together to either re-build the dam or a new house.

Quote :

This is a sensitive throbbing issue . I await your frank answers , trusting your capacity to do a fair , respectful and intelligent debate .
So lets Begin .

Hello everyone!

Thanks for this discussion Kools. With a diminishing interest in PR, I had little to discuss, but this one is a very interesting topic.

I haven't read anyone's views right now, cos I want to write mine first without getting indirectly influenced in anyway, or uncomfortable.

I must admit at the outset itself, that foolish as it may sound to some, I am what many would call "Old-fashioned" or "Romantic" about sex.

Old Fashioned bcos:::: I am not judgemental about pre-marital sex bcos I believe everyone has a right to live life his own way, and I can't even say my ideas are absolutely, totally correct- they are just my opinions and feelings and bound to be subjective. Also, I feel that in the area of sex, our views largely depend on our background, literature, arts, society we are exposed too and so on.

But when I say I am "sort of old-fashioned" (even though my family is modern and not at all conservative and my mom is my best friend), it is in the reference that I don't really like the idea of pre-marital sex, but my reasons are NOT those antiquated ideas of purity. Actually I read this line in a book and liked it very much- your ability to control your inner self is what differentiates you from animals . If you fall prey to your feelings (in the name of needs) somewhere I feel it signifies lack of self-control. The set benchmark for control can be subjective- for some it is not to get involved till you are sure this is the one person you were waiting for, for some it is till you get steady in life, and for most it is marriage. The last seems the best according to me, cos marriage in itself is a commitment and when u are getting into it, you know there will be some stability in the relationship (at least that is what people TRY to achieve) and by that time, you will also have settled down a bit and will be more mature as well (it is bcos of these factors that one considers being ready for marriage in the first place)

So in short, I don't really like the idea of pre-marital teen-age sex. I believe we must learn to control our self. People say that just like food and air, sex is also a need. (I think I heard Mahesh Bhatt say that). Yes, but food and air are necessities, you cannot live without it. SEX is not a necessity. One can live with some sort of control.

Now why I would say I have a "somewhat romantic" approach of this is as follows:::::

Pre-marital sex is still okay and would not get raised eyebrows from me if the act was done with FEELINGS- however innocent, mature, passionate they might be. If there are some sort of feelings with the act, then I would even agree to shut up my views written above for them. But if it is done without feelings as in:::

Teenagers who want to get a kick without the genuine need to be in a relation
Experimentation
Money
To get favours
Peer pressure

Then it gets a big thumbs down from me.

Third dimension is a "somewhat practical approach". Alright, so you are involved in pre-marital sex and there are no real feelings involved, then at least keep it SAFE. Be prepared:

1.) Use some sort of protection.
2.) Be prepared for the fact that if your relation breaks due to any reason, you might have to deal with stigma and sad feelings later and even feel that you shud not have done this in the past.

With this background, I will now answer your questions.

koolsadhu1000 wrote:

1] Is it healthy ? Some say , sooner or later it starts anyways . Its the way youth 'express themselves' . [color=red] According to me, it is not a healthy trend culturally, socially and for medical reasons. [/red]

2] What should be the appropriate age for this 'expression of self ' ? When you know you are mature, and your decision is not just an outburst or one night 'uncontrollable stand' but rather it is a decision you have made yourself. At least, later, even if the relationship doesn't work out, you won't have to feel unnecessarily guilty and can be assured that you tried to do things the right way.

3] Was the compulsion of being a virgin till one got married a horrifying puritanical excess , a suffering ? Even though I'm not in favour of pre-marital sex, I would say, yes, it was a suffering. This is so bcos as I said earlier also, everyone's views on an issue like sex are bound to be different. No one has the right to dictate how others should live their life or make a social stigma of it. One has to respect others views on sex, no matter how weird they may seem to you. Even though I am not in favour of pre-marital sex, I wud never hold this in a judgemental way against someone. Plus, the 'virgin' part was sick in the aspect that they considered only the sexual part as a woman's character, as if character is denoted by this one and nly count.
I think, basically the whole thing had been introduced in our society cos our ancestors had somewhat similar views to mine and since the only way to make people accept something is to scare them, hence such strictness. But over a time, it deteriorated and took a very sick form, where a woman was shunned out of society for such reasons. Plus, such people need help, not such punishments. It introduced the whole general equality thing

4] Many youngsters believe today that expecting virginity till marraige is sick and judgemental . Do u agree ? I have actually seen people who said it to me.. hehehhe.... actually expecting anything from anyone in matters of sex is not right at all. Leave people to their own opinions after sharing your own insights is the best way to be.

5] Were our ancestors judgemental or were they making these rules to keep minimum chaos in society ? Oops! I answered this one above. Yes, the initial idea was that only, but later with the whole emphasis on RULES rather than on the UNDERSTANDING BEHIND THE RULES, it took a really sick form.

6] Is it ok if teens indulge in sex if they use adequate protection ? Should the permission for sex be given if they promise to have 'safe sex' ? Hmmm... Would advise them everything first, then if they still don't agree then would go for this last route. At least, they will still be on friendly terms and discuss if they fall into any problems later, which can be quite possible.

7] Would we want this for our children when they grow up ? Is it a part of 'letting go " ? Absolutely not.

8] Adults can have it if they r unmarried but teens can't is what some believe .Is it fair ? In adults, there is some expectation that the person is a somewhat sorted out person, and must have thought things over it. If he suffers, rejoices whatever, he will be more 'prepared' to handle it. With teens, one cannot keep this expectation. Plus, with teens, it might not always be due to true feelings, rather it can also be a case of favours, peer pressure, or so on. They might regret it later in life. Plus teens have this idea of "Knowing everything" whereas fact is many do not have adequate safety precautions knowledge.

9] Who decides WHEN premarital Sex should commence ? This I don't know. I guess the involved party shud decide. But I hope parents guide their children properly from the beginning itself, and that too not in a dictatorial way. My mother talked to me a little, in an indirect sort of way. I know she trusts me and that is why does not even doubt me and has no problems in having boyfriends too so now I would never dream of breaking that trust.

10] If Teen Sex leads to pregnancies , should we help our kids our alienate them ? I ask this specifically as while doing irresponsible sex they defied us and didn't ask us . So do they desrve help or should they bear the brunt of their actions as thats how it is in LIFE ? They need help. Everyone does wrong things in life sometimes, and teenage is an age as such that people are misguided and highly confused.

This is a sensitive throbbing issue . I await your frank answers , trusting your capacity to do a fair , respectful and intelligent debate .

So lets Begin .

I got so involved in the discussion that I used very few emoticons...

I just went through the replies of other people... Kools, was this discussion about teens as in, 13 ???

I was thinking that you are asking about teens as in college going ones... OMG, sex for 13 year olds???

Well, if you are talking about so young teens, then I think for sure its not right for them. They're too small to understand the emotional, physical and social and cultural constraints of all this. Their feelings at this stage are very likely to be due to infactuation or love with the idea of love itself, or peer pressure. They are getting deviated from the other more important prospects at this age.

They need to be counselled and explained properly.

well thought topic and am sure it will be a very enlightening debate..my views are sort of in between the two extremes of how the youngsters might think and how the society in general might..


1] Is it healthy ? Some say , sooner or later it starts anyways . Its the way youth 'express themselves' .
it depends on the mental age of the person according to me..if its for the reason of "fitting in wid the cool group" or "he/she will leave me if i dnt do it" its obviously not for the reason to be intimate wid ur partner and hence not healthy..and if u havent reached tht maturity to decide WHY u want to go ahead wid such a step,u are not ready to bear the situations tht might arise..
2] What should be the appropriate age for this 'expression of self ' ?
i wud say atleast adulthood legally,so 18-19 wud be my ballpark..not younger thn tht coz at 15-16 ur view of life is really naive and anybody can take u for a ride..its ur body and life afterall..
3] Was the compulsion of being a virgin till one got married a horrifying puritanical excess , a suffering ?
tht i wud say yes..every person shud have a choice open..the compulsion takes tht choice away and adds a judgemental colour to the picture..why shud other people decide wen i am to have sex?its solely my choice..the same logic goes for those who do so coz of the peer pressure as well,its a two-way street..do what YOU think is right and appropriate..
4] Many youngsters believe today that expecting virginity till marraige is sick and judgemental . Do u agree ?
to sum extent,mostly coz of the sexist thinking of it being true only for the female..if i am a virgin i have the right to expect my spouse also to be the same,or atleast come clean abt him not being so..and if a guy is NOT,he shudnt expect his wife to be "pious" and "untouched"..i believe in same rules for both genders..
5] Were our ancestors judgemental or were they making these rules to keep minimum chaos in society ?
no..i wud say not..they thought of the rules as right in their time and place..just tht since the thought process of people are changing,they feel stiffled by this..
6] Is it ok if teens indulge in sex if they use adequate protection ? Should the permission for sex be given if they promise to have 'safe sex' ?here,the doctor in me says ABSOLUTELY..if u are going to indulge in sex,irrespective of a marriage or not,one owes it to himself/herself to take care to protect his/her body frm infections to unwanted pregnancies..its the very least tht shud be done..
7] Would we want this for our children when they grow up ? Is it a part of 'letting go " ?
since am quite far off chronologically frm this particular scenario,i wudnt be able to answer it fairly..bt yes,if tomorrow my child wants this frm his/her own choice for the right reason at a point in life wen he/she can MAKE this decision (which being mutual love and understanding) it wud be judgemental of me to force my belief on thm..
8] Adults can have it if they r unmarried but teens can't is what some believe .Is it fair ?
its again fair taking into context the mental maturity of teenagers..even if an adult chooses to have sex to fit in or hold onto a guy/girl its not sensible according to me,irrespective of the age..
9] Who decides WHEN premarital Sex should commence ?
well,from my POV its the people involved in the act..both of thm and nobody else..
10] If Teen Sex leads to pregnancies , should we help our kids our alienate them ? I ask this specifically as while doing irresponsible sex they defied us and didn't ask us . So do they desrve help or should they bear the brunt of their actions as thats how it is in LIFE ?
frankly,irrespective of help or support given or not,they will bear the brunt of it all their lives..bt as parents,there shud be a support system..widout tht the teen who is already VERY lost,wud just end up making more mistakes..abortion if needed shud be at a safe,certified place and not at "hidden" places coz of the fear of the society..too many girls lose their lives and their fertility coz of this atleast in our country..

I agree with your entire post but these sections resonate.

Levaz wrote:

A fundamental change occurred in the East, especially in India with the advent of cable TV.

While sex had its part to play in any society, I would shudder to think of my 13 year old cousins / nieces getting "laid", begging all your pardons for my crude choice of words.
Expression is something that is public and this act is certainly done in closets, and closed rooms - so what exactly is being expressed, Sorry, no dice.

If you are old enough to pay for your own shelter, food and clothing, then perhaps no one has any say in the matter, however, if any one of these criteria are not met, then no amount of maturity, in my books, "earns" access to the deed

No such thing as safe sex for teens, they are simply not emotionally ready to handle all the baggage that goes along with it. A simplistic analogy would be the potential disaster in the making, if when a builder is mixing the cement for laying the foundation of a building, is distracted by his gambling habit. He plays cards instead of paying attention to his work. The foundation that he now lays for his building structure is a definite "maybe". Teenage years are the preparatory years - the foundation is still being mixed, the laying of the foundations starts in college and university where they may start testing the waters, after which, once the foundation has set - let the partying begin!! (after they have moved out of course)

@Levaz - this is exactly what I was trying to say but your analogy captured it all

Quote :

Life has never been fair. Life is not about being fair. Life is about living it to the best of your ability.
Just because I have something or have access to some facility, cribbing about it does not justify you having it too.

For all my rumbling, I must admit that, when push comes to shove, I will succumb and probably run to the aid of my child.
Of course, they will never hear the end of it. No matter how many time you warn or guide, after the dam is broken, all parties should come together to either re-build the dam or a new house.

nikitagmc wrote:

I just went through the replies of other people... Kools, was this discussion about teens as in, 13 ???

I was thinking that you are asking about teens as in college going ones... OMG, sex for 13 year olds???

Well, if you are talking about so young teens, then I think for sure its not right for them. They're too small to understand the emotional, physical and social and cultural constraints of all this. Their feelings at this stage are very likely to be due to infactuation or love with the idea of love itself, or peer pressure. They are getting deviated from the other more important prospects at this age.

They need to be counselled and explained properly.

sex among very young teens and preteens is very much a reality here.

In India the society is so involved in people's choice of liefstyles that people then to be cautious in these matters even as adults as someone is always watching. but this unfortunately is not the case in the west

people shrug off the concerns of anxious parents as being archaic or puritanical but many of these concerns stem from a recognition of what these acts do to society and individuals.

over here in my province they are looking to influence this through sex education. problem is the age at which the education starts. Sr. K.G. currently it is simple form at least for my second grader i.e. no pictures just high level summaries ie. sperm egg etc. I find even this too much. but to make things worse they are looking to make it more descriptive even at these tender ages. they are looking to pass legislation and parents have brought out quite a protest as legislating it means that it is taught to them mandatorily without our permission.

my son recently came to me and asked me very casually "Mom does the baby come out from the front or the back?" I was shocked blindsided hearing such a comment from my 8 year old and I am afraid I chickened and told him he was too young. my mistake. I then asked him why he wanted to know. his rationale was simple. he said "well the baby is in the tummy just like food right. food comes out from the back where does the baby come out from? made sense. I was ill equipped. Jeeju told me I should have answered. next time I know better.

I guess I could have answered but it just surprised me to know my baby was actually pondering this. Did it come from something he saw on TV? at his school? at home? or from the sex ed they are teaching him in school?

Did you know of this case?

http://www.time.com/time/world/article/0,8599,1815845,00.html

Checkit out. it horrified us when we read it and it may not be happening on this scale but it is in a more random manner.

when you go downtown you see groups of 15 and 16 year olds walking around with THEIR babies in prams

this is why we are terrified.

there is a lot more I want to say and even anu's and your posts that I want to comment on but have to leave for work so will comment later

Hope

thanks for starting this topic.

way better than discussing PR.

Niks u didn't goof up . Its 13 to 19 . Here , in countries like the US , middle schoolers start it as early as 14 . This is a glaring reality . Perhaps they do it in India too , by HIDING . I do know for a fact that 13 and 14 year olds in India r not innocent anymore . I was once sharing a rickshaw with some of them during school hours and their language and adult like behaviour zapped me . They swore in every second sentence and were laughing at some extremely vulgar jokes. The school was a very reputed one in Vile Parle .........only upper middle class students and above go there . Times have changed were my thoughts as the students got off . Sensing my quiet , unspoken shock , the rick driver shook his head and told me , he heard it everyday . Its Kaliyug madam , he told me resignedly .

I will give my views much later . I want to read the different views that roll in first .

From whatever i read upto now I gather this much ..........So 13 is not ok . Neither is 17 . But 19 is . I mean Parents r willing to look the other way if at 19 or after it , the teenager promises to be responsible by using protection .

But r they really ready at 19 ? He or she is young , innocent , standing on the threshold of LIFE . We who r perhaps 30 years ahead look at that innocent face and think .....Does he or she know what he is getting into ? Does She know the implications ? Of what tasting that will do to her emotionally and physically ?

So she starts at 19 . And Perhaps Marries at 29 . And till then has had a string of boyfriends . Perhaps 3 .........or 4 or even 5 . Experienced sex with 4 men .

How do u guys think her mental state will be when she marries ? Hardened emotionally ? She is now entering the marital state without 'emotion ' or 'Love' , isn't it ? Without innocence ? Maybe she now evaluates practical things before settling down .Like not giving importance to looks but money , a good nature , zero addictions , security .

So for all the talk about MY Life and Love .........what it really comes down to is tasting everything , having a good time and realising the worthlessness of it all and fyi doing the practical thing , isn't it ?

So the roses and chocolates and grand weddings have no real meaning after all . The decisions have been taken on a practical level .

Didn't our elders already say the same thing ? We brushed them off as controlling . But perhaps they KNEW all this beforehand .

Life was simpler and uncomplicated when we did not demand our so called independence .

The 3 things that Matrimony demands ......innocence , love and total trust ..........are all missing when marraiges take place today .

I agree with Levaz when he or she says that at no point r the teens ready even if they promise to have safe sex as they simply cannot handle it emotionally . They r not ready for it .

Imagine the journey from 19 to 27 or 29 or 32 . It makes me scared to even imagine it .

This, unfortunately for us, is where we fall apart on our own principals. For all my rumbling, I must admit that, when push comes to shove, I will succumb and probably run to the aid of my child.
Of course, they will never hear the end of it. No matter how many time you warn or guide, after the dam is broken, all parties should come together to either re-build the dam or a new house.

Thats the thing that bothers me the most . That we ALWAYS fall apart on our own principals . We may smoke , but we don't want our children to smoke . We know the hazards of smoking ........the blackened lungs and the premature white hair and the Damocles sword of cancer looming over our heads . We may drink but it makes us uneasy when our kids expect us to share a drink with them when they turn .say , 17 . Or even 18 . We feel disrespected , and if we don't feel that , we at least feel uneasy , wondering if he will be able to handle the alcohol . Well I cud handle it but what if he doesn't . What if he becomes an alcoholic .Thats the thought that plagues the mind . Even the parents showing the highest bonhomie to be in the good books of their teenaged child r actually uneasy in the mind .

Sex too has the possibility of addiction . And Addiction .........whether its of alcohol , cigarettes , or sexual activity ...........can wreck a person's life . It can get out of hand . It can emotionally dent a person , take his focus away from his studies , career , job . US is replete with people in their mid thirties and forties trying to go to college to get a degree coz during their hey days they thought the best life is the open convertible , a girl on their arm and swilling a chilled beer while driving it . That much money they had earned by scraping thru McDonalds and Subway jobs . The maturity to peer ahead was simply not there , sex ruled the mind . Having a girl seemed the best thing then perhaps .

Me too , if my child makes a mistake I will rush forward to pull him out from the mire into which she or he has sunk . I will perhaps shout at the top of my lungs while pulling him out or even smack him on his head with a hundred I told U sos but In the end i will help him . He is my baby after all .

But the question remains . Could I have STOPPED it from happening altogether ? Was I a bad parent when I turned my face the other way and let him or her go out at 19 coz I did the same perhaps when I was young ? Did I take the easy way out ? With their commando parenting were our ancestors more responsible than us then ? They practised what they preached and perhaps we fall apart on our own principles coz we don't ???These r the questions that often plague my mind as a parent .

Does it not seem that we all have become our parents (ar at the very least are in the process of), which is exactly what we promised ourselves not to do (cannot use "never" since that is an absolute, and the truth has proven otherwise). Fortunately, we can take heart in old research from the 70's and 80's, which states that you need to simply repeat the rules even if it appears that no one is taking heed at the time. The analysis is based on the theory that human beings are extremely susceptible to the power of suggestion and repetition. We only need to look at the money being poured into advertisements worldwide for proof of that fact.

This very theory is a major part of the reason we are having this discussion today - modern behavior has been molded by watching our favorite characters on the idiot box. Several years of watching declining morality (The Graduate, the steamy western soaps), blood and gore (who did not like First Blood or Blood Sport) on the tube - look at the means streets of LA or New York, let us not forget the nonsense that is occurring in good old Mumbai or Delhi. I do not even bother to read the local news - it is too too sad - not one day goes by with at least several cases of molestation (I mean extreme violence against women, which to me is a fate worse than death), people murdering the parents for the flats / other wealth, not to forget all the scams.

A lot of us do have these vices that you mentioned, (smoking, drinking, betting on games, etc.), and like our parents before us, we wish that our kids will learn from our mistakes instead of making their own. While drinking and smoking are bad habits in their own right; The fundamental difference of part-taking in those vices is that we do not end up with a new addition to the family to nurture and sponsor - all over again. We will always blame ourselves for our progeny's shortcomings - this is inherent to our Indian upbringing - complete with a large helping of guilt, even for occurrences that may have had nothing at all to do with us.

That brings us back to succumbing to our children when they cry for help after not listening to us in the first place !! There is no point placing the blame on ourselves, even if we are at fault, as that does not solve anything - there will be many willing friends and family magnanimously showering us with their finger pointing. Progress lies in picking up the pieces and making the best of the situation. Isn't that what Indian excel at ... improvising, under the worst of circumstances!! So why not here as well.

I apologize for having veered off from directly answering all of your points, but that will give me reason to post some more again.

Levaz

Sorry guys!! Have been busy, so don't even have the time to read all the detailed analyses. Missing the commentary as well. But, would like to comment on this when I have the time--hopefully tomorrow? Kool, let me know if this post is taking up space or something. I can delete it and post something when I have the time to write in detail.

sowmya_jairam wrote:

Sorry guys!! Have been busy, so don't even have the time to read all the detailed analyses. Missing the commentary as well. But, would like to comment on this when I have the time--hopefully tomorrow? Kool, let me know if this post is taking up space or something. I can delete it and post something when I have the time to write in detail.

Hi sowmya.

great to see you here hon. was quiet today.

I thought this topic would be buzzing. I guess everyone is busy with work this week.

hopefully we can all come on more often soon

BTW, we will be opening a chat thread shortly - not related to commentary or even hot topics like this. so don't forget to meet us there when it opens

After reading the article I was . No wonder the west doesn't feel the need to discourage any of it.

@Kools: Yes, in India, teenagers at 13-14 have somewhat become what you encountered. But not all. Depends on many factors. Like I was a total buddhu and seedhi at 13.

But yes, I don't think teen sex at 13-14 happens here that much here . I may be wrong, but somwhow I find it a little difficult to believe.

Niks:

it's not only a question of teen and teen sex.

what about teen and adult sex?

teens do not differentiate emotions based on age.

there are so many instances of teenage boys developing serious relationships with their teachers or mentors or friend's parent or strangers they met off the internet?

In Us and canada there are statutory rape laws but not in other parts of the world - what then?

I hope this question does not offend anyone as this is a mature topic and the question is not meant to be crude but truly discuss all facets of this issue - besides physical sex there are other forms i.e oral, phone, online/virtual - these may not have the same lasting physical impacts - so would these be tolerated or ignored by parents for teens?

Hey Kool! Awesome new forum you have started here, what a cool idea. I hope you don’t mind if I join the conversation. ; )

1] Is it healthy ? Some say , sooner or later it starts anyways . Its the way youth 'express themselves' . I doubt that teenage sex has health benefits, neither physical nor emotional. I don’t see it an expression of self, and I’ve never heard or overheard any teenager say that, regardless of their sexual activities. Most of the time all I hear is that the first and second time hurt a lot, and then I stop eavesdropping. (I'm assuming that is the laughing emoticon? That's what it's coded as.)

2] What should be the appropriate age for this 'expression of self ' ? Age is merely a number. Everyone has a different level of maturity and varying thought processes; the appropriate age is different for each person. Some may feel thoroughly comfortable in their teens and some others may wait much longer. Also, view points on sex are very different among teens; there is no way to generalize or put a blanket on the sentiment towards it. Many like me still have happy romanticized visions of monogamy and abstinence, often due to religious or moral influences, but for many other teens sex is nothing more than a physical act. Everyone will also have a different view on which way is correct, I do not find there to be any hard and fast rule written on the Earth on which way is “right”; religious texts, literature, and human experiences point in all different directions and none of them are completely and objectively correct.

3] Was the compulsion of being a virgin till one got married a horrifying puritanical excess , a suffering ? I don’t find it to be an excess or a suffering, to me it seems logical to circumvent issues such as unwanted pregnancies, diseases etc. Also, sex before marriage and in teenage years has existed forever and all around the world. Some seem to choose to ignore it and blame it on some sort of barbaric nature of teenagers today, especially using us paapi teens of the west as an example, but it has always been around. However, it has been given much more light through new mediums of communication in the modern day.

4] Many youngsters believe today that expecting virginity till marraige is sick and judgemental . Do u agree ? I do not find it necessarily “sick”, but I do think it is rather judgmental. Mostly it comes across as judgmental when all other qualities of a person are ignored simply because of their sexual choices, and virgins are somehow “pure” and “innocent”, regardless of how their thoughts may be, the lack of an act certifies their goodness. Virginity may show a sense of control or adherence to a certain stream of morals to some, but making it an absolute expectation isn’t fair in my view.

5] Were our ancestors judgemental or were they making these rules to keep minimum chaos in society ? I think it was to minimize chaos. In tribal eras individuals frequently had many sexual partners and in many places the modern views of marriage, abstinence, and monogamy were nonexistent. The streamlining of families and the want for stability, along with aforementioned preventative methods, added to the onset of what is considered by most of society to be “morally correct”.

6] Is it ok if teens indulge in sex if they use adequate protection ? Should the permission for sex be given if they promise to have 'safe sex' ? I don’t think I have ever met a teenager who has taken permission to have sex. Even then, though I personally am not a fan of teen sex, I think it’s better for teens to know about all types of protection and actually use them instead of going for it without any protection at all. If it’s going to happen they might as well be safe and well-informed of the possible consequences.

7] Would we want this for our children when they grow up ? Is it a part of 'letting go " ? I’m not at that point yet, but I really think it would be incredibly weird if my mom thought that letting me have sex would be equivalent to “letting go”.

8] Adults can have it if they r unmarried but teens can't is what some believe .Is it fair ? There are different ways to look at this. While my immediate reaction is no, the same rules should apply for everyone, I can also see the other side. Many – though of course not all – adults are usually independent (have a job, some sort of home, handle their own finances etc) and thus ideally will and can take responsibility of their actions. Most teenagers – again, not all – aren’t quite prepared to handle, or at least pay for, an unwanted pregnancy or STD.

9] Who decides WHEN premarital Sex should commence ? I think this is on a case-by-case basis and it is ultimately up to the individual. Religions, schools, families can say all they want but in the end it is up to the person and how they feel about it.

10] If Teen Sex leads to pregnancies , should we help our kids our alienate them ? I ask this specifically as while doing irresponsible sex they defied us and didn't ask us . So do they desrve help or should they bear the brunt of their actions as thats how it is in LIFE ? If I ever – for a lack of better words – f-ed up and came home pregnant then I truly wouldn’t expect help from my mother, though I would hope for some sort of assistance. While I don’t think that parents are compelled to help (unless the life of the teen is in absolute danger) they could be the difference between those two lives being ruined or saved. Though it is obviously hard, often teenage mothers with some sort of parental guidance are able to prop their lives back up and raise their child reasonably well.


I think I can be safe to assume that I won't be dismissed as just another crazy teenager by you lovely ladies, though pardon me if any of my views reek of being juvenile or unaware.

Interesting topic of discussion but the title itself scares the hell out of me. Whenever i come across such topics it's gives me sleepless nights, just one taught, OMG!!! will I be able to protect my kid from all this ???

I agree to the views of Levaz , Nikki & TB . Though for many in todays time pre-martial sex is just a casual thing it's a big No No for me and hence teen sex is just out of question.

Since this trend of pre-marital sex has already set in and part of our society is cool about it, how do we protect our own kids from this who get into it due to peer pressure or just for the sake of it . I would really like to know everyone's views on this.

From the responses above, it appears that all of us are adults with young ones or budding adults already. I wonder if some of the college / university kids or unattached adults (as in married) would step up to the plate and let us know how they feel about this. I do remember doing exactly the opposite of my current stand, now that I am a parent, and it was not really that long ago. This reiterates the growing up to become our parents as I mentioned before. I remember my own mother warning any of the girls that I dated to be careful and think twice about hanging out with me!!! My own mother, but she knew what I was up to and it was her duty to protect the innocent. In fact, she was very specific with her warnings to the last girl that I was dating, who fortunately for me, ignored here warnings, and is now my spouse.

OMG Darling TB. I missed seeig your toothbrush icon.

so glad we finally get to chat again


I liked your post. will respond later

Interesting topic.

i read most of the responses, and i agree with all. will give my opinion also.

Teen sex..interesting topic...but I feel sex at 13 may not be a great idea, simply because with every action comes responsibilities....it is not' do it just for fun'...even with fun, kids/adult have to take responsibilities. Say a teen boy gets a girls preggy, he will have to take a father's responsibility of the baby, same applies to the girls..at this age getting/taking sucha huge responsibility is just detrimental to to person, however u analyze it.

1] Is it healthy ? Some say , sooner or later it starts anyways . Its the way youth 'express themselves' .
As I say as long as you can handle the outcome...so it is better to wait...get the education/salary/career needed before u can even begin to think about supporting others. First support yourself.


2] What should be the appropriate age for this 'expression of self ' ?

When one is confinent that they can support and handle the consequences...for some that might be 60.

3] Was the compulsion of being a virgin till one got married a horrifying puritanical excess , a suffering ?

No, I think it is a choice....one needs to have the mature to choose...its like saying no to drugs..

4] Many youngsters believe today that expecting virginity till marraige is sick and judgemental . Do u agree ?

No...but I guess it is good people have less expectation...I have know instances where bed sheet were checked for blood...u know one doesn't lose virginity thru only one thing.

5] Were our ancestors judgemental or were they making these rules to keep minimum chaos in society ?

If u talk about our ancient ancestor...I don't know...there are historic and vedic instances to babies before marriage...I think our society as such was very open...but India with so many waves of conquest was bound to set boundaries regarding sex...it was a way to safe guard the society from total degeneration..


6] Is it ok if teens indulge in sex if they use adequate protection ? Should the permission for sex be given if they promise to have 'safe sex' ?

again, responsibility to me is the word...also something as beautiful as sex should be experienced in a hurry...commitment from both partners only endears it...



7] Would we want this for our children when they grow up ? Is it a part of 'letting go " ?

Yes, hopefully they will be responsible.

8] Adults can have it if they r unmarried but teens can't is what some believe .Is it fair ?

No...I think the same rule applies for adults as well:)

9] Who decides WHEN premarital Sex should commence ?


10] If Teen Sex leads to pregnancies , should we help our kids our alienate them ? I ask this specifically as while doing irresponsible sex they defied us and didn't ask us . So do they desrve help or should they bear the brunt of their actions as thats how it is in LIFE ?

I will help my kid...only because, if I don't hes/her life can totally be ruined...

This is a sensitive throbbing issue . I await your frank answers , trusting your capacity to do a fair , respectful and intelligent debate .

So lets Begin .


[/quote]

Wow this is not an easy topic. I agree with most of the people who posted. For me, it would be safest if the teens abstained. But a lot depends on the society they are in. In the west, boys and girls are sexualized at a much earlier age. When I was growing up in India all this dating stuff wasn't there, when we were 15-16, there would be crushes, but if one had an ice-cream with the boyfriend, that was already gossip fodder among friends for days Maybe things have changed now in India, I don't know. But in the west things definitely are different. You have sex thrown at you in every movie, music video, TV serial. A lot of kids decide to have sex just to fit in. As a parent, I would like my kid to abstain, but I don't know that it can be enforced. I guess what I would tell my kid is that having sex is not an automatic process like-- turn eighteen, get a driver's license. You shouldn't have sex just because you can. You should have sex with some one because you are ready to make a certain commitment to them, and only after thinking out the consequences carefully.

1] Is it healthy ? Some say , sooner or later it starts anyways . Its the way youth 'express themselves' .

Physically it can be safe if adequate protection is used. Emotionally it may lead to many problems. A casual sexual affair may lead not only to physical problems like pregnancy or disease, it can lead to emotional trauma also. Teens tend to be emotionally immature (not all, but most), so it is more difficult for them to handle this.


2] What should be the appropriate age for this 'expression of self ' ?

I don't buy the 'expression of self' argument. There are plenty of ways to express oneself. Sex should come with an emotional commitment, whether before or after marriage. You shouldn't have sex just for the sake of expressing yourself, just as you shouldn't walk naked in the streets just for expressing yourself. You should have sex when you are ready to make an emotional commitment to a partner, and that can happen at different ages for different people.

3] Was the compulsion of being a virgin till one got married a horrifying puritanical excess , a suffering ?

It wasn't a suffering for the most part because the social structure demanded that people got married fairly young anyway. It made sense in that context.

4] Many youngsters believe today that expecting virginity till marraige is sick and judgemental . Do u agree ?

Its not sick, its a point of view. But yes, it can be judgmental especially in todays world.

5] Were our ancestors judgemental or were they making these rules to keep minimum chaos in society ?

The rules were made for the society. I don't think any rule is made to be judgmental. Of course rules made with perfectly good intentions may become oppressive or outdated with time, then they gradually get changed.

6] Is it ok if teens indulge in sex if they use adequate protection ? Should the permission for sex be given if they promise to have 'safe sex' ?

Teens typically don't ask permission for these matters. I would like them to be well taught about adequate protection, though. Abstinence is theoretically the best model, but if a single mistake could give a kid AIDS its better to at least take some protection.

7] Would we want this for our children when they grow up ? Is it a part of 'letting go " ?

The key word is grow up. When they are mature enough to make informed decisions about sex, and take responsibility for their actions, they can do what they want.

8] Adults can have it if they r unmarried but teens can't is what some believe .Is it fair ?

Adults are usually independent and can take care of themselves if something goes wrong. If a thirty year old woman has premarital sex and gets pregnant or gets a disease she is supposed to handle this herself, although some support may be there from friends and family. Teens in such a situation are often completely dependent on their families. Moreover such a situation can be life changing for them since their career paths etc are unformed. So it is definitely more dangerous for teens to get into unmarried sex, and the difference is justified.

9] Who decides WHEN premarital Sex should commence ?

The person(s) involved. It varies greatly. To repeat myself, premarital sex should be undertaken when the people involved are able to make their own decisions and take responsibility of future actions.

10] If Teen Sex leads to pregnancies , should we help our kids our alienate them ? I ask this specifically as while doing irresponsible sex they defied us and didn't ask us . So do they desrve help or should they bear the brunt of their actions as thats how it is in LIFE ?

As a mother I don't think I could alienate my child completely. However I would expect to see some responsibility from them, if only after the fact. As in, if my daughter is pregnant and decides to keep the child, I would expect her to plan things logically, complete her education, try to be financially independent and mature as a woman and mother. Not just dump the kid on me and go around having fun like nothing happened, as I see with so many young girls here.

I always wanted to point out that both societies(Western/Indian) are very different. In the west, it is expected that a child lives separately during the college yrs, and infact a boy/girl still living with parents is looked down in the west but is very much expected and accepted...Also, in the West, a yound adult out of college has few options but to work, what with a huge college loan that has to be paid off right after graduation and getting a employee paid health insurance that is very expensive to be paid otherwise. This is not the case in the East. So, a child learns at a very early age that he will have to work right after college or even after high school...So, they start earning money, start doing what a so called 'adult' do...not living with parents itself is like ticket to sex..I mean in India, how many people even have access to place to do such an act...my 2 cents:)